Updated: Jun 8, 2022
[00:00:00] Laurin: Welcome to the curiously wise podcast. I'm your host Laurin Wittig. This podcast is all about women supporting women, mind, body, and spirit. It's a place where we will honor, celebrate, and share women's natural and experiential wisdom through curiosity provoking conversations, shared stories, and tips we've all gathered along this journey. I invite you to join in the fun as we uncover the unique wisdom, we each carry within us. Ready? Let's get curious
[00:00:45] Hello, friends and welcome to Curiously Wise. I am so honored to have a person who has been a mentor to me, but also I really feel like she's a good friend though we don't see each other often enough. I want to introduce you to Lara Zielin. And I was telling Lara that I usually let people introduce themselves but her bio is so fun.
[00:01:05] I just called dibs. So Lara Zielin is a personal growth strategist who helps super smart women stop face planting on their biggest goals. I love that. She is the creator of the HAPPE Method of journaling, which has been featured in the wall street journal. She's a contributor to the forthcoming great book of journaling, and she's a member of the international association of journal writing.
[00:01:33] And I also want to add, cause she forgot that she's written this fabulous book called “Author of Your Life”. So you can get that one as well. Lots of good books. So welcome, Lara. I'm so happy to have you here.
[00:01:46] Lara: Oh, Laurin. It is my pleasure to be here.
[00:01:48] Thank you so much. And I have a little dog that you might hear in the background, so apologies to anyone who’s listening.
[00:01:54] Laurin: I've got one snoozing right next to me. So we're good.
[00:01:56] Lara: All right. Oh, I'm so honored to be here. Thanks for having me.
[00:02:00] Laurin: Oh, well, you are such a fabulous light in the world, and I always get a big smile on my face when I'm with you and you have this amazing ability to bring journaling as a real healing tool. I've been a journaler off and on in my life. Usually when life is hard is when I journal a lot.
[00:02:18] But I went through a program that you had before that I don't think you're running anymore, but it was a wonderful opportunity to really dig deep in a structured form of journaling that was still open enough to really get out what I needed to get out. So I just want to thank you for creating this amazing program.
[00:02:37] Lara: Thank you for taking it. And thank you for being a fan of journaling.
[00:02:40] Laurin: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, we're both writers, so
[00:02:43] Lara: Yeah, we love words.
[00:02:46] Laurin: I always call myself a word girl. So, so tell us a little bit about how you came to journaling.
[00:02:53]Lara: So I came to journaling the hard way, the very hardest way, because like you Laurin, I decided not to do it until everything was wrong. And when I say everything was wrong, everything was wrong. I was really in a dark place. So my husband had started a brick and mortar food business, which if anyone listening knows, this is a very tough kind of business to run.
[00:03:19] It was in financial, you know, is in young business, just in its first few years, I won't say in financial straits, but just, kind of struggling to get off the ground. So things in our financial life were very different. It caused friction between us. We were sort of in a really distant place from each other.
[00:03:37] I was drinking a ton. I was pulling away from the people around me. I was having my own professional crisis because I had been writing young adult and romance for a number of years. And both of my publishers pulled the plug on me with this. Just a few weeks of one another.
[00:03:53] So it felt like the universe was just slamming all these doors in my face. And I was really reeling. I was lost. I was just feeling like such a loser, failure, just eating, drinking too much, just in a dark place. And in this dark place, I really was just struggling for a light, struggling for a way out. And as a fiction writer, I thought, alright, what if I just decided to start a book where I just write this story as if this was all fiction and I'm a character and I felt well, what I have happened to the character of Lara to get her out of the situation?
[00:04:29]What would happen in her life? And so I just started writing in this journal by hand, I went old school. I just picked up some journals from TJ max, and I started writing in these journals by hand. And just started out as a bunch of really affirmations, just, , , Lara has joy in her heart money flows to her with ease , , I just started writing.
[00:04:46] I turned to trying to put her in situations where she felt happy and where she was able to connect genuinely with people. And she and her husband had a better relationship. And. After doing this for about a year, the results were so transformational that I had to reverse engineer the whole thing and try to figure out what, what, what just happened.
[00:05:07] Laurin: What did I do?
[00:05:09] Lara: What did I just do? I wanted to not only reverse engineer to figure out like why in the heck did this work, but I also wanted to see if I could shorten the timeframe for results. And so that is part of what led me to the HAPPE Journaling method that you mentioned in the intro, which is sort of a the reader's digest, condensed version, of all of this.
[00:05:29] And it's kind of how, how to get started with it essentially. And it's a technique I tell you what, I still use it today. I use it every day. It freaking works. It's like the greatest thing I've ever done in my whole life. And. Laurin. I just can't even tell you, we're almost, I'd say we're almost four or five years on from me the first time I ever put pen to paper doing this, the transformation I can't even tell you it just some days I just sit there and I just marvel that this is my life. This is my life. I get to have this life. Cause I feel like it just, I created it in my journals and now it's here and it's just amazing.
[00:06:05]Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's manifestation on paper. I mean, where you can go back and look at it and go, wow. I created that. I thought it, I wrote it, I believed it, I made it. Yeah. It's crazy.
[00:06:18] Lara: And, and for the folks who don't like the M word, some people don't like the manifestation word. Personally, I love it. I believe in it. But if you don't like the manifestation where just know this is rooted in some good science, and we can talk about that today about the deep science that this is rooted in.
[00:06:33] Laurin: Do that. Tell us a little bit about the science. Cause I know the handwriting there's a scientific reason. And as a writer, I know when I get stuck, I turn back to handwriting.
[00:06:41] Lara: Yes, right.
[00:06:43] Laurin: So tell us why that works.
[00:06:45]Lara: Well, there's a few things going on here with our little brains. so the first thing that happens is that if we look at the science of sort of rumination and brain spiral, as intelligent people, we really want to believe that we can think our way out of our problems.
[00:06:58]So, picture me back four or five years ago in this dark place, depressed, drinking too much. The whole thing, I really wanted to be able to like, think my way out of my problems, but everytime I thought about them. They just seem to grow larger and grow bigger. And it was just, it felt like this toilet spiral, down the drain, right.
[00:07:15]Of just like, this is not helping me. And that is, actually what happens in our brains is that when we only bring sort of this cognitive labor to it, We're not helping ourselves. So there's research by a guy named Ethan Cross. He wrote a really good book that's called “Chatter” and everyone should get it.
[00:07:34]It's very good. So Chatter talks about this brain noise that happens when we try to think our way out of our problems. And so one of the ways that Cross has a thing about this as like seeing the forest through the trees, if we're ruminating and we're just getting stuck in our heads, we're just too close to the tree.
[00:07:51]And so what he advocates for is this thing called Cognitive Distance. And Cognitive Distance is a way to get, as you can imagine, distance from your problems and look at them in a new way. Now this sounds terribly simple, but it's actually kind of hard to do, unless you're really thinking about it strategically.
[00:08:09]And so there's a few ways that he advocates getting Cognitive Distance and one of them is writing, but we're not just writing. We're actually writing in the third person. So he talks about thinking about yourself in the third person. This is specifically research-based in his book that thinking about yourself in the third person makes you much more able…
[00:08:28]…to solve problems, to get clarity, to think in new ways. And so, I don't know why, I guess I did it by instinct when I was journaling, when I started out, I was just writing about this “Character Named Lara”. And I didn't understand why I was doing it, but I think intuitively I understood that Lara had some wisdom and perspective and, thinking channels open to her that I didn't have one. I just sat down to like, well, I'm going to think about this problem though. So writing about ourselves in the third person is really, really, really good for our brains. That is part of why we write this way in the HAPPE Method. HAPPE is an acronym, right?
[00:09:06] So the H is. By hand, I'm just going to jump into this.
[00:09:10] Laurin: Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.
[00:09:11]Lara: So the H is write by hand, which is also, as you mentioned, really good for your brain, it slows your thoughts down. So you can actually process them. When you write by hand, you connect your handwriting, it's a motor skill and you connect that to your thoughts, which is more likely to make those thoughts stick. That's why people have done a lot of studies on kids who take notes in class, and they found that kids who take notes, on laptops and just furiously type, retain a lot less information than the kids who actually write by hand.
[00:09:39] So H is for writing by hand, then that A is that you want to write as if your dream, your desire, your goal, your whatever, whatever you want to feel as if it's already happening. So in this method, there's no like, boy, I sure hope or wouldn't it be nice if, or maybe someday, like, we're just writing. Listen, if you want a beach house, you're just writing as if that beach house is here today and you're living in it. And then the first P is writing in the third person.
[00:10:09]Right. We want to get that good cognitive distance. The next P is that we're going to keep it positive. So we want things to the brain is terrible at negatives. So if I tell you Laurin, don't think of an elephant. Our brains just aren't good at negative. So we just have to keep it positive and then our brains will get it.
[00:10:29] And then the last E is really sort of the jet fuel on the whole process. So the E stands for emotion and E is how I figured out how to shorten the distance between what I was writing about and what I was actually experiencing. That's the E. So you can do this, like I did. And write in your notebook until you're like your pen, tares the paper, and you can do that for a year and you'll get there.
[00:10:54]But if you want the jet fuel and you want it to happen sooner, you do the E. So the E is that actually at the end of your journaling, you close your notebook, set it aside and you pick one emotion that came through when you were writing that ideal life, as if it was happening, you pick one emotion, it could be peace.
[00:11:12]It could be freedom. It could be joy. I mean, you name it right. You pick one, you sit there and you just close your eyes and you begin to draw that emotion into your body and you begin to generate it and you begin to think about it and you imagine it like light filling you up. And that my friend shortens the distance between where you are and where you want to be, if there's no distance, because suddenly you're experiencing it and that will get you there instantly.
[00:11:41]Laurin: I didn't even do it consciously. I just breathed in that joy you're talking about, and I just felt this sort of calm and peaceful and happy. I didn't even do the journaling part. Not today.
[00:11:54] Lara: The funny thing is you can do them independently apart from one another. Certainly, you can do the journaling without the E and you can do the E without the journaling, but put them together. And it's like…
[00:12:04] Laurin: Yeah, secret sauce.
[00:12:05] Lara: Secret sauce. Exactly!
[00:12:08]Laurin: I can tell you that, and tell the listeners that it's a remarkable thing to write in third person about yourself. I also was a romance writer, so I have a lot of experience writing about other people from their points of view. but writing about my experience from the third person.
[00:12:26] I don't know, it takes away a lot of the resistance to looking at that. For me, it did, a lot of me is, I'm a stuff that down when we put it down here in my hips,
[00:12:37] Lara: Way down
[00:12:38] Laurin: Way down there, I don't want to deal with that. I'm just not going to think about it and I'll move along.
[00:12:41]Like it never happened. And then it always ends up coming back. So being able to turn and look at it with that distance. I've been working with some of my clients about perspective and I had forgotten about that third person's perspective. So I'm gonna use that.
[00:12:57] Lara: Please do. Absolutely.
[00:12:59] Laurin: But, that magic trick is amazing.
[00:13:02] It's magic.
[00:13:04]Lara: It sounds so simple, but it is just transformational. You'll be amazed. I mean, I just did. I was just telling you, I just did a workshop this last weekend in person. Welcome back to in-person workshops. And, I love watching people's faces when it happens. They're just like, oh my goodness.
[00:13:20] I can see anew, it's like seeing things in a totally new way. thank you for being a testimonial for it. My dear.
[00:13:27]Laurin: Absolutely. I mean, you know, I'm a big fan of you, but also of the work that you do because I went through it and it was transformational and it was a big piece of me getting to where I am today. Doing podcasts, getting some of those stupid barriers out of the way that we just aren't even aware that we're sort of self-inflicting.
[00:13:49]So talk a little bit about the things that we have in our bodies that we need to, I think of it as excavating, but I also call it revealing.
[00:13:57] Lara: Yeah.
[00:13:57]Revealing. Excavating. It's also good. And what happens to us Laurin, is that when we're young we are taught, and our brains and our bodies sort of adapt to what we think is a limit where we think of as like the bar for how much happiness and goodness we can have in our life.
[00:14:17]And there's a really good book called “The Big Leap” by Gay Hendricks. he talks about how there's this bar that you have in your life. You are going to create circumstances in your life that match up with where this bar is.
[00:14:32]And again, I just really wanted to give people a lot of like empathy and compassion. If you're hearing this, it's really not your fault where this bar is set or how it's set. It happens probably between the ages of like three and 10 to be totally honest. But what happens is that you've got this bar it's very deep, it's very subconscious and you kind of form your life.
[00:14:52]So it makes sure that it fits this bar. And then you might decide, for example, you've got this life and your bar here is like, I'm really comfortable making $50,000 a year. It's what my dad made. It's what my people around me make. This is what I'm comfortable making.
[00:15:07]Here's your bar. Well, then all of a sudden. You get a raise at work and you go beyond that bar or what Gay Hendricks calls the upper limit. This is your upper limit. All of a sudden you get a raise and you're making $75,000. You're way up here. Your bar is here. There is a gap and your brain and your body do not like it.
[00:15:26] They are going to revolt against this gap. And so what happens is that you will sabotage, you will do whatever it takes to bring yourself back down to this very comfortable level. So in the case of a salary, for example, you might spend that money, you might flake out on your job. You will do whatever it takes to get back to $50,000.
[00:15:48] You might really be. Frivolously spending that money just to get it away from me, get it away from you. Or I don't know, make those investments with it or whatever, because where you're really comfortable is $50,000. Now translate this to any number of areas in your life. You might reach an age or a time or whatever, where you're wondering…
[00:16:07]…why can't I hit my goals? I set all these darn goals and I can't hit them because you have an upper limit problem. That's what's happening. You have an upper limit problem. So you're like, I'm going to, whatever it is, I'm going to start this business. I'm going to start this podcast or I'm gonna do whatever.
[00:16:24]And, you just, flake out or it's not happening or things just can't seem to come together the way that you want. Or, maybe there's a body goal. Maybe you want to be a little bit healthier. Maybe there's a relationship goal you want to find true love and just isn't happening. These are the goals.
[00:16:40] These are the things that I really love to help women with because it turns out you just have an upper limit problem. Now the thing is, here's the thing with upper limits, because they're so deep because they're so subconscious skills are so old. They're so stinking old, they've been there forever. Again, we can't get to them solely by thinking about them.
[00:16:24] Everybody wants to ruminate on them and I'm not saying that's bad, but, in my message, we address the subconscious problem with a subconscious solution. So I get people writing in a way that really gets to the root of that block. What is that belief? What is that block? And once you see it, once you can address it, subconsciously once you can like, sort of again, where you were using writing.
[00:17:25]To get all of this information excavated we're using writing. And once you see it on paper, you're just like, oh, oh, it's, that'll just not. So for example, let's just say that you really want to find true love and you're really ready for a long-term committed relationship with the person you're supposed to be with.
[00:17:44]And you do this exercise with me and lo and behold, guess who shows up? It's our old friend fear and fear is saying this isn't safe for you. You're gonna be hurt. This is just going to lead to hurt and pain. Well then if you know that that's what you're dealing with. If you know that that's the root, then you can journal in the third person and you can start writing stories where your heart is soft and open and you're open to people and you lead with vulnerability and you understand that there is no guarantee against pain.
[00:18:14]You welcome the experience that life has for you and, whatever it is, then you begin to journal that way. You start to slowly begin to open the door. Not even slowly, it can happen very quickly actually. You can begin to open that door to new possibilities.
[00:18:31]And a new upper limit. You just keep raising the upper limit. It's not that we're not going to have upper limits. It's not that we're never going to be scared or not want to do something. We would just keep raising that bar so that we can allow more and more and more goodness into our lives.
[00:18:44]Laurin: I love that. I love that. And I've never heard it described quite that way. So that's really, for me personally, that's really helpful. So I'm going to call that a negative wisdom. Cause I like to pull those out that we do have these set points that we are not conscious of. And that really, I mean, I've seen them into my own life get in the way of accomplishing. The things I I'm here to do the things I want to do, the things I love to do. And it is transformative when you can pull them out, put them on paper and see them from a distance.
[00:19:18] Lara: Yes. Yes exactly.
[00:19:19]Laurin: Yeah. I mean, you actually really have a physical distance there from the problem, from the barrier, from the limit, whatever it is.
[00:19:27] I love that. How are you working with clients these days?
[00:19:31]Lara: Great question. What I love to do are what I call laser consultations, I call them laser performance consultations, which is just a really fancy way of saying, let's just look at those subconscious beliefs and let's get you performing at the higher level than what you're at, because there's some kind of goal.
[00:19:49] My ideal clients are women. Who've got goals, the stuff they want to do in this world. And for some reason there's a block. So I want to get women out there being just freaking killing it. So I love to do these sessions, these laser performance sessions, where we really, we go in, man, we look at this flat, we uncover this block and I give them all the tools, so the performance coaching session was going to reveal the block and show you what it is.
[00:20:17]We're going to use the cut, come with me on some conscious journey where we're going to reveal all of these things. We're going to reveal them. And then I'm going to give you a roadmap of journaling to begin to heal them. And actually, we start healing it right there in that session. And you get all the tools to just continue and continue and continue to work.
[00:20:35] I love doing those. You've done those.
[00:20:37] Laurin: I did. I was gonna say, that's how I started with you. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even remember how I found you initially, but I think that was like the thing that drew me in it's like, oh yeah, I need that.
[00:20:47]Lara: The great news is, is that they're 90 minutes. I mean, listen, I love therapy. I love going for years and years and I'm like, I'm in. Right.
[00:20:54] But man, if you can get something done in 90 minutes, like just while it's 90 minutes in a follow-up, but you don't have to labor on this.
[00:21:02] This is knowable. This is identifiable. And I love, love helping women. Just what's name it and let's change it.
[00:21:09] Laurin: Yeah. Now that makes me want to go back and pull my journal out and reread our laser session.
[00:21:15] Lara: I know I have my notes somewhere for you. I, can dig them up.
[00:21:18] Laurin: Yeah, because that's been probably two years. I want to say. Since we did that and my life has changed radically in those two years. I mean, never mind the whole pandemic thing, but I mean, the trajectory that I'm on now is completely different than I was two years ago. So I'm sure that there's something in there that I'm going to go, oh, look there.
[00:21:39] That's where it started.
[00:21:41] Lara: Yeah.
[00:21:42]And here's what I want to say too. I love the expression “New level, same devil” because the idea is that the things that play do in your play do, that's a terrible way of putting that. The things that were blocking you in your sacred story session are probably going to be the things that are coming up.
[00:21:56] Now they're just manifesting differently because you're at a new level. My old chestnuts are always gonna be feeling worthy enough, like feeling am I, do I feel worthy enough? That's going to be a big one for me, a fear of, you know, gosh, am I in trouble?
[00:22:10] That's another one for me. Right? So these things are always going to show up for me. It's just, they show up differently depending at what level I'm at. And you are absolutely in a different place than you were two years ago. It'd be interesting to see how those are trying to sneak in now.
[00:22:25] Laurin: Yes. Yeah. Cause I'm aware that there's still some there, so I might need to like do another session with you. There's one. That's just hanging on like this.
[00:22:37] Lara: We'll get it. We'll get the scissors.
[00:22:41] Laurin: All right. I want to go on to our rapid-fire questions.
[00:22:45] Lara: Yes.
[00:22:46] Laurin: This is just top of the head, whatever pops into your brain, that's what can share with us. So my first question is who is, or was the wisest person in your life?
[00:22:57] Lara: Ooh. I'm going to say the wisest person in my life is Glennon Doyle. She's not really in my life.
[00:23:06] Laurin: Yeah,
[00:23:06] Lara: But she's in my life. I listened to her podcast. I read her book and I feel like the game changing magic of untamed was really that the first woman who ever said you can listen to yourself and know your own self.
[00:23:22] Like she just said it in a way that I was like, oh my God, like just cracked me open in the best way.
[00:23:30] Laurin: That's another book. I'm making a list of books here that I'm going to put in the show notes. That book was a life-changing one. And honestly, I'm the kind of person that reads something. And then I don't consciously remember it, you know? So like I couldn't quote it to you and tell you exactly what it's about, but I remember reading it and being completely blown away and having conversations with so many women around that book at that time.
[00:23:53] She's amazing. And she has a podcast. So if, if anybody listening is interested…
[00:23:58] Lara: “We Can Do Hard Things” is what it's called.
[00:24:00] Laurin: Yeah. Yeah, she's great. What a life.
[00:24:04] Lara: Oh, amazing.
[00:24:06] Laurin: What's your favorite self-care practice?
[00:24:11] Lara: Ooh. Right now I think it changes, but right now it is stretching. It turns out Laurin that I don't really like to think about my body, that I would just really love to be ahead and then my brain and then ignore everything below it, if I could.
[00:24:30] Right. That's how I was raised. So many of us gen Xers were like raised that way. It turns out I have a body turns out she needs some care and turns out that she loves stretching.
[00:24:40] So we stretch and it makes everything easier. It makes work easier. My runs have improved. My running pace has improved just from stretching more and my back feels better.
[00:24:50] And it's just been a really lovely way for me to give myself old TLC.
[00:24:55] Laurin: That's great. That's great. Are you doing anything specific or yoga or just stretching?
[00:25:00] Lara: Yoga has never been something I felt connected to. So I literally Just get on the floor and roll around and stretch it out.
[00:25:10] Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. I've taken up dancing lately just in my kitchen, but with an exercise sort of dance class kind of thing on the TV. And I love it cause I love to dance, but I don't dance much anymore because my partner doesn't like to dance. Plus the whole pandemic thing, you know, I can't get together with the girlfriends to dance.
[00:25:30] Lara: That's lovely, just doing it in your kitchen. It happens.
[00:25:34] Laurin: It's the only place with enough space for summer, the next one is what lights you up when you are feeling down?
[00:25:44] Lara: What lights me up when I am feeling down, you know, Tony Robbins has a really great phrase that he says quite often, which is Change Your State three words. He says, when you're down, when you're in that rumination, all of that, whatever heavy stuff, just change your state.
[00:26:01] And I have started doing that and it is as simple as turning on a song, like turning on some Lizzo. Right. And just like, not even dancing, I won't even say when I'm down, I don't really want to dance, but could I like shake my shoulders a little bit? Yeah. Can I go for a walk? Yeah.
[00:26:15] So really what lights me up when I feel down is changing my state.
[00:26:19] Laurin: Excellent. And the last one is, do you have a favorite mantra or affirmation?
[00:26:25] Lara: I have a favorite mantra or affirmation?
[00:26:27] I have so many that this one's shutting me down a little bit. Which one do I pick?
[00:26:33] Laurin: It doesn't matter just any of them and they, I know they change all the time, but.
[00:26:37] Lara: No, I'm going to show you this one that is on my wall here. It's a little post-it note and it says, does this feel good to me? And that is such a good one, I put it on my wall because it's a guidepost for me because I have so often asked, well, what will you know, is this right for so-and-so or what will my friends think?
[00:26:55] Or what does Rob want me to do or what one of my bosses need. And I really need to be asking more. Does this feel good to me? What is my internal compass? Where does my internal compass point on something? So I'm using myself as more of a barometer and asking, does this feel good to me?
[00:27:10] Laurin: That's great. That's when I do, when I remember to.
[00:27:14] Lara: Yeah, right. It's hard to remember sometimes, isn't it?
[00:27:17] Laurin: Yes. Can you tell us where the best place to find you is online?
[00:27:22] Lara: Yes, absolutely. Just head over to my website. It's Lara Zielin. It's www.lara-zielin.com. My last name is spelled Z I E L I N. And it's Lara. Like, like Lara Croft, tomb, Raider
[00:27:35] Laurin: It's simple, simple, no extra vowels.
[00:27:39] Lara: Nope. No extra.
[00:27:42] Laurin: Well, this has been such a lovely time with you. Thank you so much for joining me. I always loved being in your presence and your joy, and I just, I miss seeing you regularly. So this has been a real treat. So thank you for being here with us.
[00:27:54] Lara: Thank you, Laurin. It is my honor. And pleasure. Thank you. And thank you to your lovely listeners for tuning in.
[00:27:59] Laurin: Yes, and I want to thank them as well. I thank you for showing up. If you loved this conversation, there's others available already and more come. I will say a little pitch, you can always subscribe so you don't miss anything. And I just want to finish the way I like to finish with, from my heart to yours.
[00:28:18] I wish for you joy. Higher levels of your barriers, happiness, fun, dancing, and moments of peace when you most need them, have a lovely day. And I hope to see you next week.
[00:28:39] Thank you so much for joining us today on Curiously Wise, I hope you found a nugget of wisdom that resonates with you, perhaps it brings comfort or strength, or simply the peace that comes from knowing you aren't alone in your experience, or perhaps it illuminates the wisdom already within you. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe.
[00:29:03] So you don't miss future fabulous conversations. And if you had any ahas, please share them in a review so we can continue to pay forward the unique wisdom we all have. If you want to know more about me or my intuitive energy healing practice, please head over to my website. www.heartlightjoy.com.
[00:29:24] Curiously wise is a team effort. I am grateful for the skill and enthusiasm. Arlene Membrot, our producer and Sam Wittig our audio engineer bring to this collaboration. Our music is Where the Light Is by Lemon Music studio. I'm Laurin Wittig. Please join me again next week. For another episode of Curiously Wise, from my heart to yours, may your life be filled with love, light, joy, and of course, curiosity.