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Transcript Interview Episode with Deb Drummond

Updated: Mar 8, 2023

Deb: [00:00:00] In terms of tips is taking the reality, which is the physicality. The physicality, like my arm hurts. It might hurt because you know, I'm fighting with my ex-husband or I've got grief with my brother or whatever, but the arm hurts. So, dissecting that and dissecting source and cause and coming up to something that feels holistic and what's holistic? Whole, the whole picture. And that's how I train people.

Laurin: Hi friends, and welcome back to Curiously Wise. I'm so happy to have you here with us today.

I have the amazing Deb Drummond here with me today and we're gonna have a beautiful conversation. I just, you know, I say that all the time. I'm sure we're gonna have a wonderful, amazing conversation.

So, hang in there with us and let me introduce you to her through her bio and then I will introduce you to her [00:01:00] in the flesh. So, Deborah Drummond discovered her aptitude for intuition and insight as a teen. Throughout her life, she continually found herself attracted to helping others and being of service.

I can relate. She was rarely shy. I'm not surprised, and had a keen sense of who and how she could help. When she started her massage practice, this intuitive gift became very relevant. She quickly gained a deep understanding of the power of the information she was receiving.

She developed her intuitive practice based on a strong desire to assist her clients in an impactful way. Deborah has been an intuitive for over 30 years, and her healing arts practice has helped over 27,000 people to date. I am in awe. She is the proud owner of her company,, where you'll see the classes she teaches, the courses she offers, the business opportunities she's offering, the products she creates and endorses, and the schedule of her online and live presentations from stage.

This is a busy, busy lady. She's [00:02:00] amazingly intuitive. She is generous, generous too. She's been very generous with me. Deborah's been featured on TV in Canada. She's in Vancouver, and she, she loves it out there. I'm, I, I've never been to, to Vancouver yet. So, Deb, thank you so much for being here on Curiously Wise with us. I'm just really excited to get to talk to you today.

Deb: Oh, Laurin, thank you for having me. I'm enjoying so much of our conversations that we've had so far, and very like-minded. I appreciate this opportunity to talk to your audience.

Laurin: Yeah. So, Deb and I met in a, a workshop and she had an intuitive hit to contact me, and we've had a couple of calls and I was just on her podcast and we've been having these amazing conversations, so I, I. Yeah. I just, I, I just love being with her and talking to her cuz it's always fascinating and I always learned something.

So, stay tuned. So, I just wanna start with this idea that you were a teen when you first started getting these intuitive hits. I [00:03:00] know that I was probably intuitive long before I realized it. I didn't know that I should pay attention. So, what was it like for you in those early days and, and did you have anybody to help you through that stage?

Deb: Yeah. Interesting, right? So, I am a wise woman as well, which means I've been, I've had a few years on the planet and the first time I saw something very vividly, it was a, it was a vision and it was an image and I was eight years old and I woke up in the middle of the night and I saw it illuminating at the end of my bed, and it was, you know, people would be like, oh, it was a, it was actually an image of Jesus.

But I was not raised in a religious home. I didn't have a like or dislike for that figure, but at eight years old, too much, too soon. It completely freaked me out and it made me feel like I needed to keep it to myself. No, look, I'm 57 years old. We're talking you know, a little while ago, and this was not a conversation that people had. Then you know, then it really, so it was just kind of a secret.

And I think intuitively, I would say the first time when I, I would have [00:04:00] senses of, I would have senses of like, you know, I would be drawn to one way or not to another, drawn to one way or not to another, and I was living intuitively without being able to formulate it that way. I just would be like, no, that's okay.

Yeah, let's really go there. Then, it became very, very apparent, like you just finished reading when, I mean, I had many intuitive incidences that once I got comfortable, I don't even say comfortable. Once I got to a level of understanding that it was something that was not in my control, like I was like, oh my God, I, I, I don't really like this.

I don't know who to talk to, no one could talk to. Once that started to happen was when I took my first massage class and I was in a circle of, it was a small, I was pregnant, so they had me in a small group of like six people. And I started to, as we were massaging, I was starting to get a better sense of a spiritual community.

But then when I went on my own and had my massage practice, I literally would hear full downloads, messages. I would [00:05:00] see people's guides come and stand around the table. I was like, this is still, you know, 29 years ago, I called my massage teacher, losing it, just going I don't know if this is flashbacks from the days I was in the music industry.

I don't know what this is like. And she's like, oh my gosh, that's so cool. And I'm like, what do I do? She goes, I don't know. It doesn't happen to me, but it sounds cool. I go, it's not cool. It was really scary, you know? And it wasn't until someone talked me into going into a psychic, cuz I'd never gone to see a psychic.

I didn't know the terminology she had talked me into going. That I sat down in front of this psychic, who honestly, when I walked in, she was wearing this dress. And look it, my first thought was, hmm, that's not really a great color for her. Like, I don't know, it was just this really bizarre dress she was wearing.

And I was like, I was like, wow. And then I'm like, oh my God, she can read my mind. I mean, that's how uneducated I was around spirituality. And then I sat down and she started to do reading. She's like, ooh, someone's a little psychic and they're having a problem with that. Hey. And I was like, yes. It was almost like the first time that you get to voice it.

Laurin: Mm-hmm.

Deb: And then once that [00:06:00] started to, you know, unfold and unfold, I had to, within myself, get more comfortable with it and seek out people that could advise me. But it was a tough go, I'd say. It was a pretty tough go. And then my daughter, who is now 29 at five years old, well she started to show signs and then at five years old she was like, hey, you know why, you know those things like those graveyards?

I'm like, mm-hmm. She's like, you know, you know why people go there, right? And I'm like, mm-hmm. I do. She goes, you see that? Right? Like, I see that. You see that, right? I'm like, let's go have a conversation. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, so what do you see? And she goes, well close your eyes. You can do it too. 1, 2, 3, and off.

I watched my daughter go, and when she came back, she completely described a hospital room where she saw someone passing and the wife and the mother and the, like, the whole deal. And I was like, that's cool. This is what you see. This is what I see. This is what Auntie Deb sees. You know, this is. And she's like, okay.

Like, like I was having a conversation about Play-Doh.

Laurin: [00:07:00] Wow. She's, she's lucky she had you.

Deb: Yeah.

Laurin: I, I, I remember my son telling these extravagant stories when he was, you know, four and his sister’s saying, he's just lying. And I wasn't on this path at all at that point. Now I'm wondering, hmm, what was he really describing, you know? So, yes. Wow. Okay. So yeah, I know that, that I, I certainly share that I, you know, was afraid of what I could do with my gifts, or I was afraid of the gifts.

I didn't wanna be weird for one thing. I'd always been a, a weirdo for most of people's, you know, acknowledge of me, and I didn't wanna be even weirder. But yes, it takes a while to, to accept that. I think. Yeah.

Deb: Yeah. And or have the people show up. Like for me, I was massaging this woman. and she was a massage teacher in our area of Vancouver. I mean Vancouver, Canada, obviously. You said how much I love my city. And she was doing a massage on me, actually. She was doing a massage on me, [00:08:00] and she stopped in the middle of the massage.

She goes, do you mind if I give you a message I'm getting? And I almost broke into tears. I go, does that happen to you too? I was already like, two years in my practice. You gotta think we're talking 30 years ago, you didn't…

Laurin: mm-hmm.

Deb: When I first started my business, I had a separate flyer. I still to this day, you know, Opal Professional Intuitive. I have it on a different card because some people love it, some don't. It confuses. I'm just like, when I'm told to give it, I give it, but I, I almost broke into tears and like, does that happen to you too? Like, it was really quite, it was difficult. It was difficult. Mm-hmm.

Laurin: Yeah. And I, that's part of why I love doing this, this podcast is because it, it allows people a way to hear it without it being, you know, sort of, without having to be defensive. We're just having a conversation they get to listen in on, but they're gonna, you know, if they need it, they're gonna hear something that validates, or that, you know, augments what they're experiencing or knows, or, you know, brings. I needed the language of it.

I didn't know how to [00:09:00] describe what I was doing. And so that's where teachers were really helpful to me. I learned modalities, which was really more just learning the vocabulary of what I already did. So yeah, so the more of this kind of stuff we can get out for people, cuz I know there's just so many people out there that don't know what's happening to them.

Or just super scared, you know? And so, yeah. So, it's lovely. Now you mentioned that your daughter, you mentioned just before we kind came on, that your grandmother also had some of these gifts.

Deb: Yeah, so here's the interesting thing. So, I was talking to my cousin, so I was at my cousin's house, you know, like all the cousins hung out together, cuz you know, my mom and her sister and brothers hung out together. And when I had that vision at eight years old, I was staying at my cousin's house, you know.

And we were, we were sleeping, you know, and it happened at the end of her bed in her room, and she lived in the attic of this old, you know, character house. And her sister was getting married. So, we're talking, I don't know, like I was, oh my gosh, I may, maybe I was [00:10:00] like 39, 40 years old or something like that, or whatever it was.

And I was at her sister's house up in Prince George. And, and I, I looked at my cousin and I said, you know, there was something that happened. Whatever, 32 years ago you're, she goes, you don't even need to tell me. I said, no. Yes, I do. She goes, oh, no, you don't. I said, it was a, she goes, I know. She goes, it's Jesus, right?

I'm like, yeah. She goes, it still follows me to this day. I go, what? And then, so how many years ago with that? I go would've been great if Reagan told me, we had this conversation earlier. I said, this whole time I've been keeping it to myself. She goes, I was she, no, she tried to tell her mom, who her mom had turned into her, not her turned into, but her mom chose a vocation where she didn't really wanna hear about that stuff.

But she goes, you know, grandma had it too. And my cousin Donna was the eldest female cousin. And I'm like, that makes perfect sense. Because I was always very close to my grandmother and I was sharing with you earlier how people in the family were scared of her cuz she was pretty bold. Like, this is a woman that if her marriage wasn't working out, she was like, [00:11:00] there's the door, bye.

And she would move on. Like she was, she, she had the art of containment around her emotions, I'll tell you that. But she was just like, if she stood up in the room, you knew it and you were just like and I just had a relationship with her, but I'd be like, lady, sit down. You know, like we just, she did, we just had a healthy respect and it was a kinship.

Laurin: Mm-hmm.

Deb: I'm like, that makes perfect sense. So, yes, apparently to this day my cousin has that, that image, that energy, that what have you, that follows her, so, mm-hmm.

Laurin: So, do you have any male cousins that you know of that have this gift?

Deb: So, my son and my daughter, both. My son was really strong. Like when he was born, he'd look at the sky and he'd talk in both me and my ex-husband who, who's from England. And that's not so different. Like the, you know, there was just a different culture around spirits in that country. And so, my son was very early on to the point where, you know, when his grandmother passed, him and his dad drove into the parking lot of the funeral.

She had just [00:12:00] passed over like a few days before. And so, the burial was happening that day. And so, they drove in and my son turned to his dad and said, that was rude. And he's like, what? He's like, you just drove by Grandma Hazel. She's standing right there. Mm-hmm. Or he would talk to things or say, Hey mom, there's like this person.

It's like, they look like all white. They're coming up the stairs or whatever. So, my son was, had it, and we were fully prepared at that point for our intuitive, our intuitive guy.

Laurin: Wow. I wish I had been knowledgeable like that when my kids were little, you know, because it would've probably helped both of them quite a bit. But we get where we get when we get there, right?

Deb: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Laurin: So, you have this beautiful, intuitive gift, and it sounds very similar to the way I receive things and see things.

Deb: Right.

Laurin: But you do a lot of work with business and so, I'm fascinated by that because [00:13:00] so much and, and we talked a little bit about this before, so much of people who do the intuitive healing work and, and are in the healing modalities have a hard time with the business side of things.

Deb: Right.

Laurin: So, talk to us a little bit about how, maybe a tip or two even, but how we can help that.

Deb: Absolutely! Yeah, I hear you sister. I hear you. Okay. So, we all have God-given gifts, right? And obviously we tapped into them same as myself. When I first got my massage damn pad and I knew it was gonna be part of my life, I just intuitively had a knowingness. I'm like, okay, so if I do this mini massages, I can do this and not go back to work.

Cause I was pregnant with my daughter when I took my course and I can take care of the family and I have a natural ability for numbers and for commerce. People used to come into my home and I’ve set this beautiful studio, and yes, I've done, you know, many, many, many treatments and spiritual and mediumship and all that good stuff, and I've, I've talked to [00:14:00] people.

I've had two radio shows where people would dial in and call in and all that good stuff. And so, I know my people and they would walk into my studio and expect to see all these holistic books. But half of them were, Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. Multon Goldwell. I have a version and a love for information and the cog of building business.

I love building, I love the progression of building, which is why my podcast is about entrepreneurship, right? And, and people that are doing the work. Cuz I, I love that cog and I had my own lessons around finance and ability and abundance. Look, I was raised with the money doesn't grow on trees. My mom was a single mom.

My dad left, didn't give us any money. I know what it's like to eat wieners and beans on Saturday night with no wieners, you know. Hotdog night, like all that stuff. You know, my cousin's clothes, sharing a bedroom with my brother. You know, I know what it's like to not have. I know what it's like to have, I know what it's like to not have, do you know what I mean?

Like, you know abundance can have breath, you know, I've been married, divorced. That changes things. Like I've had all of that kind of [00:15:00] stuff. I've had businesses. I've been an entrepreneur for 31 years, and if you think that every year is a glory year, then you know, go get a nine to five. It doesn't work that way.

So, but I've always had a love and a virgin and what I always said as a God has put me here to heal the bank tellers. And what I mean by that is that I'm a very approachable woman in relationship to spirituality. So, I think I, my nickname all through these years of, you know, making my way was professional hippie.

So, I'd go to the bank. You know, I would go in and teach the Health and Wealth series to the banks. No, I didn't tell 'em I was psychic. I knew a lot about health and wellness and I would teach them things at their level. I always, you know, I always had that message to come to people at their level. It's not my job to make them think like I do, but it's to open the door wherever they are.

And then I went through my own process of finances cuz I, you know, I eventually had 18 staff at my studio. Well, guess what? They needed paying and they needed, you know, checks. All that stuff. And so, I learned what I didn't know. You know, my mother was a credit manager, very good with numbers. Maybe that's where part of it came from.

I [00:16:00] understand intuitive inspiration, but I also understand what it's like to make a decision just on inspiration and it not turn out so good. And inspiration and it turns out good. Making decisions just based on the finance and it turns out good. Making business based on finance and it doesn't turn out good.

And I think having an interrelationship with, if you're going to be in business to have an interrelationship with not only just following flow and intuition, but understanding what flow and intuition is telling you. And let's run the numbers. Like, it's kind of like when you were talking about on our show, how you had a physical symptom that portrayed to be an emotional source.

Laurin: Mm-hmm.

Deb: And so, I do the same thing. So, for example, I was working with a woman yesterday and she is a brilliant Ayurveda practitioner and coach, and she's just crafted and beautiful. And she's like, I'm getting signs. You guys will, I'm getting signs that I need to go on this trip in Indian Valley and da da da da.

And she told me all the reasons why it would be [00:17:00] good. And then she's like, but I'm super concerned financially and you know, my friends think it's a good idea and I know these signs are real. Like we know the signs are real. Am I interpreting the signs? Are we this? And I'm like that. And I'm like, so she goes, but here's the fear.

The fear is about the money. It's gonna cost me $14,000 to do this. And I'm like, well, let's do some reverse engineering. And she's like, oh, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, if you want $14,000 by March 2nd, then let's take a look at what March 2nd looks like and how we can either increase $14,000, advance $14,000, create $14,000.

Let's go find it in the real world. Because we have two worlds. Now, I could have just said, obviously you're getting signs. Go for it. Jump in. I'm with you sister. Let's go. Or I could say, let's take a look and explore it so that the part of your brain that's fear, that's having, she goes, it's just fear. I go, but I wanna rec, I wanna acknowledge that that fear is steeped in truth. You have rent.

Laurin: Right.

Deb: You have groceries, you have this, and so, [00:18:00] I think it's hard sometimes. I look at it, I've made all the mistakes possible. I didn't, you know, 31 years in, in, in this world. It's like I just came back from a 20-day tour and there were some very interesting twists that happened financially. I had my own conversations with myself, right?

So, so, here's what I did. I said, okay, so your fear is based around money. So, if you want some tips, I'll tell you exactly what we did, and this is what I do in top performance training. And I'm like, okay, we have 14,000, so we have from October to March. Okay, great. What does that look like per month?

What do we need to bring in per month to put that down? And let's brainstorm on all the different ways that you can attract 14,000. before you go and while you're gone. If your worst-case scenario is that you're gonna be at 14,000 with no return and you do this trip to India and what you wants gonna happen doesn't happen, and who you think you're gonna meet's not gonna meet and who all that is gonna stop and we know there's gonna be a journey.

You don't go three months to India and Bali and not come back with having some, having a bit of butt kicking. That's just so if this is your worst-case scenario, let's look at the worst-case scenario, and let's take a look at what you're doing. And I'm like, okay, so [00:19:00] I know you're doing a retreat. What does that look like?

And how many clients are you seeing? How many clients are you gonna see between now and then? Okay, is it, what are you charging per hour? And she told me, I'm like even if you weren't going to India, we'd be having a conversation about that one sweetheart. I'm like, I want you to go and I want you to, to go out there in the world and see what people are charging for your services.

She goes, I know I'm undercharging. I go, how much are you undercharging? And she's like, I'm undercharging about 40 dollars per hour. And I'm like, okay, so let's take that $40 and if you put it on, and I said, we just found 2000. We just found $2,000. And so, we went through the $14,000 process and built in an infrastructure that if all was to unfail, so guess what happened to the fear?

Laurin: Yeah.

Deb: It alleviated because we now have a strategic plan from a business standpoint. And honestly, all I can tell you is that ever since I stepped into the world of business, ever since I decided to have my own business, and I've had seven companies, so it's not like I haven't had diversity, [00:20:00] but ever since I've stepped in, so, and a lot of them run at the same time.

So, it's not like I went from one to another to another to another cuz it didn't work or they did. So, it's like that people call it multiple streams of income now. So, so I've always said God's here to help me heal the bank tellers in terms of having them come into this world. And the other thing I said is if God ever was, if, if there was a job title of me meeting people.

And having an appointment and me intuitively telling them their best job. Like, this is what you should do for a living and this is how you should do it. God just downloads this stuff. It is like, and I've learned it in taking classes and I've studied top performers honestly for 30 years before I ever was one in my attempt to be one in my attempt to pay the rent, I studied the people that were exceeding, that came from places where I came from.

Laurin: Mm-hmm.

Deb: Right? I studied people that had to build themselves there that weren't necessarily already there. I don't know your story, but if I heard a story of someone that went [00:21:00] from not having to having, I read the book. I watched the video, I went to the movie, I listened to things. I watched things like Creed. When I watched Creed, the movie of this guy where, you know, Baboa takes him to the mirror and he's like, you wanna win?

Like you wanna win? He's like, okay, I want you to punch the bag and I want you to look at yourself in the mirror. And he is like, ah, okay. He goes, because I'm gonna tell you something, that's gonna be your toughest opponent ever. And I was like, yes. And when I'm scared, I watched that movie. Right?

Laurin: I've never watched that. I'm gonna have to watch that one.

Deb: Yeah, that's in the last creed.

And I, I love that, because I'm a didn't have to have. I'm one of those, I'm gonna call it from rags to riches. I don't really like that, you know, definition, but I went from not having to having, and it was the inspiration from watching other people. So, I listened and I watched, and honestly, I remember spending my last $300, two, 200 and something, 300 bucks to get all these tapes and cassettes.

So, you know how long ago that was, right?

Laurin: Yeah.

Deb: I was [00:22:00] pregnant and I didn't have a job. And you know, my daughter's father didn't have a job and we were like struggling and buying a chocolate bar. You know, that week was a big deal and I spent all the rest of our money at two o'clock in the morning on these tapes and they were gonna change my life and change my world and you know what they did.

But I can tell you her dad wasn't very happy when he woke up in the morning, you know. So, there's an intuition that paid off. I've gone on and on and on, but I think I give you the point. So, my point is in terms of tips is taking the reality, which is the physicality. The physicality, like my arm hurts.

It might hurt because you know, I'm fighting with my ex-husband or I've got grief with my brother or whatever, but the arm hurts. So, dissecting that and dissecting source and cause and coming up to something that feels holistic and what's holistic? Whole, the whole picture. And that's how I train people.

Laurin: Okay, so really it, it's a lovely melding of that spiritual intuitive with the practical earthbound kinds of parts of our lives. We are [00:23:00] here in human bodies, we are here to have a human experience, but a lot of us, I think, like to go up, you know, like leave the body a little bit cuz it's way more fun up there.

But, yeah, and, and I'm, I think I said to you before we started, I'm really not a numbers person, but that makes so much sense to me to take what do I need to have or want to have to do X, Y, or Z? And let me reverse engineer it. How much, you know, do I have it? What, what sources do I have that could create that income?

What else could I create to create that income? I, I, that, that makes sense to me a lot, so.

Deb: And having someone to banter out with me and like people come to you for healing. And people say to me many times, how do you get to where you get to, how do you, you know, and I've, I said I, I can't tell you this enough times. I have had some kind of professional coach or counselor or therapist or individual specialist or expert, pretty well along all of my journey, you know, when I was on this [00:24:00] 20 day tour.

20 days. Six different places of sleeping, more planes, trains, and automobiles than anyone should ever, you know, hope to do. There was a time that I needed advice and I called an advisor and we did a little bit of stuff, right? And I have someone that I talk to about other things and I have coaches and certain businesses that I do, and honestly, I don't wanna sit and do my social media all day, every day.

I go and learn about it, and then I hire somebody and I see how it injects into my world, and I see the same thing. Like I, I can see in someone else's business what they might not be able to see for themselves or honestly, they don't wanna do it. So, so good. I don't wanna do my bookkeeping either, so I don't, I hire a bookkeeper.

We talk, you know, once a month. And so, I always say to people, don't be afraid to hire an expert. You're going to learn like she's gonna go through this process with me, and she's going to learn how to do that for herself, A if she wants to, and it's always better, and I think it's always more fun to do it with somebody else because it's you bantering you.

Right? And people, people see [00:25:00] holes in it, which is why I think we need to have a comrade. You know, you talked about, you know having that experience in the group experience, and I don't say that because I'm a trainer, I'm a coach. I say that because that's what I did for 27 years before I, you know and I think that it is a critical piece to someone's success.

Laurin: Yeah. I, I have used for years for a variety of reasons, what I call an accountability partner.

Deb: Yeah.

Laurin: And it's a similar, I mean, it's not exactly the same as a coach, but it's somebody who will check in with me and go, you know, you said you were gonna do this this week, and why didn't you get that done? And then we work through why I didn't, and then we'd work, we'd talk about, you know, what I could put in place to make it easier to get it done.

So, it's a, it's a, a format that's familiar to me. I, I really like collaborating with people cuz I'm not the most self-disciplined person in the world. So, so yeah, I, I can see, and I have, I have gathered a few people like that around me for healing work. And I've, I've got a couple people now who I can, I can call on for, for like what you do too. So, and I'm [00:26:00] gonna put you in that pile now too.

Deb: Awesome. I'm so happy to be in your pile.

Laurin: Yeah. I'm a, I'm a strong, it's, it's, it's like why people come to me for healing or come to you for healing. Is it, we can't always see what we need to see to heal it on our own, cuz we're too busy trying not to acknowledge it, you know? And the same I think is, for me at least with money, is like, if I don't pay attention to it, I don't have to worry about it.

You know? I mean, I have enough, but I'm, at least I'm not worrying that I don't have enough, which is, I, I know that comes from my, my dad. But so yeah, so that, that is definitely part of the, being a, an entrepreneur you know, have a business that I've had to, to learn and am still learning and still struggling to overcome some, some of my blocks.

But they’re slowly but surely, I'm clearing those out.

Deb: Well, you know what? I have a saying and I, it's a quote and I actually put it in the entrepreneur planner. So, as you know, I do an entrepreneur planner every year for anyone that wants to be in it. We're taking it, we're taking for 2024 at this point, cause we're launching 2023 [00:27:00] in a little short time here, and one of the quotes I put in there is, if we all paid each other what we were worth, we could all afford to pay each other what we were worth.

Laurin: Yes.

Deb: And to, yeah, and to replace the word discount with adding value. And I think if we can see as the healers or the ones that have taken on the job or the quest, you know, cause we're the ones that get tested the most. Okay. So, you know, if we see ourselves as healers and we really truly believe that our dahmer is to serve, it's difficult to serve from a place of starvation.

It's difficult and I don't think that's what Spirit had in mind. And I know it's difficult sometimes, but I think we all by nature gift when we're told to gift. And give what we're told to give. And I go through it to this day, I ask myself many times, I'm like, okay, is there, you know, and, and the uncomfortableness.

Ho! let's talk about the uncomfortableness of starting to add value.

Laurin: Let's talk about that.[00:28:00]

Deb: Let's talk about that, shall we? Because I still, you know, I go through it, you know, I'm doing this really big women's project. It is costing me tens of thousands of dollars in PR. And when someone says, oh, I don't know if I just can't, I have to really check in and like, okay, if you are gonna offer this someone, offer someone something that's accommodating to them.

Is there still, like, is, are you uncomfortable? Are you pushing yourself past? Are you being fair to you? Are you being fair to the project? Are you like, and the boundary that we set up around, this is really the best that I can do and or have an exchange of value. Like starting to say like, okay, this is the value and what can you do around exchanging value and having like, honestly, it's a, it's a really interesting conversation, but it's a conversation that happens within yourself and I think that's where having someone along your side is helpful.

But as you start to, it's, it's important, like it's critical. Like I [00:29:00] remember, here's an interesting story for this particular conversation. So, I went to go see a really incredible psychic that had been doing it for a very, very, very long time. And, and this was Sylvia Brown and I went to go see her.

She came to our city, we went and go listened. And as I was walking out, someone said something to me, or the next day they're like, oh my gosh, that woman, she's like, she's $800 an hour to go for her sessions. They're like, what a, what a scam, or what a this? And I go, and I looked at her, I go, really?

And they're like, yeah, $800. And I'm like, so $800 just seems completely for a psychic reading seems, I go, she's earning that?

Laurin: Mm-hmm.

Deb: I can guarantee you from someone who paid, I've paid $30,000 for my teacher from India to come teach for a month. I can guarantee you that is value to value because she's earned her wing, she's earned her craft.

If there was a doctor that spent that much time studying, what was it? 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years of their [00:30:00] craft, and it was $800 an hour to go fix your rotator. And it was an, I was in surgery for an hour and you were paying $800. You wouldn't think twice.

Laurin: No, that would be a deal.

Deb: Yeah. So, I want people to know that. I want people to think that. I want you, like we earn our wings.

And I had people that came to me and have people that come to me and I obviously do a lot of stuff around business and dah, dah, and covers of books and all sorts of stuff. You know, my condo's not selling, what can I do? And when I had a woman that used to come to me regularly, like every, you know, six to seven to eight weeks.

And when she goes, by the time I finished my reading with you, I'd get in the car and I'd have two people call me and I close deals. Right? And so don't tell me that it wasn't worth it to her. She was like, I don't have a problem paying with you anytime. And I'm like, it was, it was, she was doing so well. At that point I was like, I think I should charge you a commission instead of my hourly wage. Right?

So, you, so people, we have to really, really recognize the value. It's a value proposition, not a, am I [00:31:00] valuable? Is my work, like if you have issues with value, which I think, I don't know, lots of us do. I mean, come on, we're always working on it. But if you have an issue with your, separate your work from yourself and does the work, does the craft have value?

And when it does, which I'm sure it does, then base it on that value. If you can't base it on your value, be uncomfortable.

Laurin: Yeah.

Deb: I always say your biggest paycheck comes from being uncomfortable.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah.

Deb: Mm-hmm.

Laurin: Well, and I, I wanna add to that because I know in the workshop where we met, I got some one-on-one time with and I'm just Shiraz.

Deb: Mm-hmm.

Laurin: He did a, you did an interview with him on your podcast just a couple weeks before I was, was interviewed or came out. He's amazing. But one of the things he, he was working with me on is my block against, I had a hard time asking for what I was worth in money.

I always felt like it was like, you know, if you can afford it or, you know, if not, I'll give you some, you can [00:32:00] pay less. The word he used with me, or what he brought out for me was that I felt like it was a burden on the other person for me to ask them for money.

Deb: Mm-hmm.

Laurin: Which is totally devaluing what I am offering in exchange.

Deb: Yeah.

Laurin: And, and I, I totally got it when he put it in that, that framework for me that, yeah, I felt like, because I had always felt like a burden to my parents. They were always fighting for money, and I was always getting, well, you, you have enough, you know.

Deb: Well as heal, as healers, we don't separate our stuff. Like we don't separate ourselves because it is a gift we have within us. And we start to value what we have, or we value our services as we value ourself on the inside in those quiet places, right? And so, blessings for us that we get to work through that.

Laurin: Yes.

Deb: You know what I mean? And that's why I say like separating, that was something that my teacher did for me. We did a big treatment. There's a treatment I do, and it's six hours. And she taught it and [00:33:00] then passed it on. And at one point, she brought in like, I was able to talk to people I needed to do clearing with, you know, and she brought in my business and I go, well, what do you mean?

She goes, well, you're gonna talk to your business. And I'm like, well, I am my business. She said, oh sweetheart, you are not your business. So, I had a conversation with my business, and so I'll say this to you. This is coming up and she's passed over now. So, her name was Light and she's nice, nice name. And she so I'll, I'll, you know, I grant this back to her, but she, I was able to say to my business, okay, darling.

I think it's a little bit, we have a little bit of a conversation here because you are not doing what I want you to do. So, I can go be what I need to be to help people. So, let's have a conversation about the finances, shouldn't we? And let's have a conversation about the, the marketing that I'm doing and let's have a conversa...

And I was able to have a conversation and share my worries, my concerns, my fears, my piss offs, and I'm like, let's get this going girl. Let's get this going. Let's, this is what I want from you. In a relationship with you. Like I'm in a relationship with [00:34:00] my business. I am not my business.

Laurin: Huh. Oh, that was brilliant.

Deb: Yeah, it was, it was very empowering. It's very empowering, but you know, there's many aspects to our businesses now too, right? You gotta, gotta give yourself credit. Like there's different, like I'm teaching innovative marketing, I teach innovative marketing as a gift once a month back cuz that's, you know, that's kinda what I was told to do.

Because marketing's my gift. And so, I can gift that. I can gift that, that feels right. And I talk about, I mean, the things that we have to know about our business now that when I started, we didn’t.

Laurin: Mm-hmm.

Deb: Not really, right? Not really. It was different. And we could build our business, you know, going to a networking group.

So, there's lots of things. So, give people that need to give themselves a break, understand that it's a multi-platform to having a business these days. And we are particularly attached because we're healers.

Laurin: Right, right. Yeah. That's brilliant. I'm definitely gonna have a conversation with, I'm gonna have a multiple conversations with my business.

Deb: Everybody this podcast, they’re like, they're gonna get off. They're like, ok [00:35:00] darling,

Laurin: Yeah.

Deb: Let’s have a conversation. Yeah,

Laurin: Well, sit down, have a little chat.

Deb: Let's have a chat. Let's have a chat. But it’s a good thing we did.

Laurin: That I don't know that that is, that right there was just such a, a wisdom nugget for me. I appreciate it. Thank you for that cuz that’s…

Deb: You're welcome.

Laurin: Yeah, cuz it is hard, especially when you're a sole practitioner and, and everything revolves around you being present for it. It's hard to detach me from the business and I can see where that's gonna be very, very helpful.

So, thank you. All right. See, I always learn something from you. All right. I think it's time for us to turn our attention to our rapid-fire questions.

Deb: Alright. Let's do it.

Laurin: Okay, so I always ask, the first one I ask is, who is or was the wisest person in your life?

Deb: Oh, wow. That would have to be my grandmother.

Laurin: Okay.

Deb: She was so full of gumption, like hardcore before her time. I mean, you know, gumption slash means [00:36:00] sometimes, but gumption, like she's an incredible woman. And, and other than that, I have to say, I have I have a chick crush on Gloria Steinem.

Laurin: My mom had a chick crush on Gloria Steinem back in the seventies. So.

Deb: Yeah, it's bad.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. All right. What's your favorite self-care practice?

Deb: Journaling.

Laurin: Okay.

Deb: Journaling, right. Paper and pen. I am paper girl. It’s on my desk. It's like I, when I open a book, I'm like, I, I smell paper. I smell paper. I just, I, I took a little notepad from the hotel. It's just that…

Laurin: Uhhuh,

Deb: …in it. Yeah. I am a paper girl.

Laurin: Uhhuh. I, yeah. I have piles of paper all over my office. Okay. What lights you up when you're feeling down?

Deb: Music.

Laurin: Yeah.

Deb: Music. I live and die by music. I honestly just, it is, it is, it's healed me from my trauma. It's healed me from breakups. It's, [00:37:00] you know, it's saved me from the bridge days. You know, me and my girlfriend have this little code. I'm having a bridge day, meaning that we're not gonna jump off the bridge, but, you know, it's looking good. Those bridge days just those days where you, you can't, you can't, you know, comprehend or there's grief or whatever it is. So, music.

Laurin: So, do you have a favorite artist or I'm gonna borrow from your own question, or a favorite…

Deb: Well, we have a Janice Joplin poster there. We have a Janice Joplin there. We have a picture of Janice Joplin from New York, and when I was just at the Sheryl Stra workshop, I found out that she just finished doing the, the script for a Janice Joplin Life movie. I'm just so thrilled. I was like, I think that's why I'm here. So, Janice Joplin Barnan.

Laurin: Okay. Yeah, I see. I didn't recognize any of that, but…

Deb: Okay.

Laurin: Alright.

Deb: It’s a 19 7 67 poster. We're not old enough to remember that.

Laurin: Well, I have a brother who, who was old enough because I was, I was seven and 67, and so he would've been 15. So, you know, he was, he introduced me to a lot of music. Do you have a favorite mantra or affirmation?

Deb: I [00:38:00] taught a really powerful and still do, I haven't done it in a while, which is when I say I taught and it's, Ohm ramshri maha lakshimiha swaha.

And it is a mantra. And it is asking Lakshmi if you know who the, the deity Lakshmi. And it's asking her to remove all obstacles because she is the, she is the deity of, you know, material goods and beauty and love and art. And she is the abundance. She has multiple hands. And so, mala beads, so I have Mala.

And I'm always wearing them. It's interesting, I wore Cornelian today. I'm like, oh, I'm not wearing my mala. But mala and I used to run big circles and even my sales team, my sales team, before we did a trade show in the car, we would do M Maha or M Laha. And it's just please remove all obstacles. Because some of the times we know that we want abundance.

It's really. It's the obstacles we want to remove away because that abundance is already there.

Laurin: There. Okay. Nice. I think I've had someone [00:39:00] else on this who had the. the same mantra, so it's a good one. All right, so tell our listeners where they can find you.

Deb: Absolutely. So, there's two places you can find me. My name is Deb Drummond. It's very easy. If someone was to Google me, they would need to put in Deborah Drummond and you'll see a plethora of different things that you, like my LinkedIn and that kind of thing. But you can go to It's my website and it has absolutely everything there.

To email me makes it even simpler. It's and if you love the intuitive work obviously, I do private sessions and they can go to Opal Pro Intuitive. So, Opal like the beautiful, gorgeous Opal stone pro intuitive dot com, and they can read all about my services there.

Laurin: Great. And we'll have all of that in the, in the show notes. Of course. All right. So, we're gonna be bringing this out in March.

Deb: Awesome.

Laurin: And you have a very special project. Speaking of Gloria Steinem coming out in [00:40:00] March, would you tell us a little bit about that.

Deb: Yes, I'd be happy to tell you about it. And it's interesting that we talk about my grandmother and the word for gumption because that's really what's behind this book. This book I got told I was gonna be doing in my twenties, I was told I was gonna do a, a women's planner because the one I was using without a print and I got disturbed about that.

I did produce planner that has lots of beautiful women in it, but this is a book that is not gonna be done every year. This is a piece of legacy. And you know, I have interviewed, I'm sure, as you have many people, and there is something very special about when a woman decides to do project. And there's something very much when you ask her, she's like, oh, my kids, my community, my parents, like we are a legacy based cellular being.

So, this book is called Mission Accepted, 262 Women Entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, creatives, and Media. Rock, legacy and tell all, and it is a beautiful full cover spread of each woman. On the left-hand side, it says My story, where they get to write whatever their [00:41:00] story is, and on the right-hand side it's stand up, speak up and show up.

And that is them writing about their project, their business, their art, their craft, and then a gorgeous black and white picture of them. So, the book is very cinematography. Has the most incredible women. And then we decided to launch it on International Women's Day due to a show that I watched. It was supposed to launch at Christmas.

We went over to International Women's Day and then I felt like it needed to have so much presence. It's a copy table book that'll sit there for years on someone's desk, but we've added an additional piece of speaking. So, there'll be six speakers at the international book launch, which will be online.

And then I've created Stand Up, Speak Up and Show Up: Yes, You! Summit Series between the two book launches. So, one book launch is capturing it like book ends right before Mother's Day. There's eight weeks in between and there'll be eight speakers of incredible women in business, sharing, telling 75 speakers.

We are looking for 262 women. [00:42:00] 262 came to me after three days of praying. I got the number, threw it back at God, said too many, he gave me 263 the next day, I'm like, you're going in the wrong direction. I'm gonna give you one more day. And then he gave me 262 the next morning and I'm like, okay, let's do this.

So, it's a big lock arm and for me it's more of like a movement. So now you know why it's not a yearly project. It is something that just needs to happen. And we are looking for people that fall that category, that wanna have it level exposure. It will be streamed on Apple, Roku, you know, Amazon TV, it, it'll be PR, NBC, CBS, ABC.

I wanna make a presence and I think it is time. It is retime. It is retime. I believe that we need to re, be reheard cuz we've been heard. It sounds like we haven't been heard. You know, we, we got sisters that were, you know, there's been eras of women standing up. So, it's time for us to be reheard in a way that redefines our boundaries and our needs and our abilities as a gender.

Mm-hmm. [00:43:00] Yeah. Yeah.

Laurin: And I hope you'll give me all the information about that so we can put that in the show notes too. And yeah, I'm, I'm excited about that prospect. I, I wish my mother was here cuz she would've like been all over it. And it's weird for me to say I wish my mother was here, cuz that's not usually how I feel about her.

Deb: But here's the beautiful thing for people that feel like that. What a beautiful, I mean on the left-hand side where people are writing their journeys or they're this, I mean there's lots of room for testimony and dedication. Even if you wanna dedicate one sentence, which is what I'm encouraging people to do, like this is a legacy book and so who, you know, this is an opportunity and that's why I wanted to give it breath.

Like you've got a full cover spread. So, you could say, I'd love to dedicate, you know, this piece, or what did you learn that was valuable, because I totally understand what you're saying on multiple levels.

Laurin: All right. Well, I wanna thank you so much for being here with me today and, and I hope that the listeners have learned as much as I have today. [00:44:00] I know that there's so many different nuggets of wisdom in there and useful tips that there's gonna be something in there for everybody. I just wanna say thank you to everybody, all the listeners for being here.

You know that we're here every Tuesday, we have a new episode coming out. Usually a, a lovely interview like this. Sometimes it's just me talking, but we have one for Curiously Wise every Tuesday, and I hope to see you next week. Bye for now.

Thank you so much for joining us today on Curiously Wise. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe so you don't miss future fabulous conversations. And if you had any ahas, please share them in a review on Apple Podcasts so we can continue to pay forward the unique wisdom we all have.

If you want to know more about me or my intuitive energy healing practice Heartlight Wellness, please head over to my website.

Curiously Wise is a [00:45:00] team effort. I am grateful for the skill and enthusiasm Arlene Membrot, our producer, and Sam Wittig, our audio engineer, bring to this collaboration. Our music is Where the Light Is by Lemon Music Studio.

I'm Laurin Wittig. Please join me again next week for another episode of Curiously Wise. From my heart to yours, may your life be filled with love, light, joy, and of course, curiosity.

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